"Clearly I am not a woman, but it doesn't matter at all. "
Of course it matters. Until you spend nine months carrying a foetus inside of you (which automatically affects what you can and cannot do) and then spend several hours in labour... well, then I consider you having a say in the matter. Otherwise it appear that you only want to control other people. Until then I view you a self-righteous bigot who wants his own ideology influence other people's human rights. And no, I don't view a foetus as a human being until it's able to think and preferrably out of the womb.
"This is a human thing we are talking about."
Nope, it's a *potential* human being (and thus, a potential Christian to you) we're talking about. And quite frankly, I can't really see you defending foetuses "human rights" when you refer to them as "things".
"You think the foetus should be thinking you are cruel? How come you thought of that?"
Can't follow you here. For a second it would seem you're suggesting the foetus should think I'm cruel, but of course that is not what your saying; that would be extremely childish. Is your point to say that you find me cruel if I think a foetus should be able to think in order to be a human? Okay, you're entitled to your opinion as much as I am.
"Think more widely. How about the future baby and both parents?"
Pardon you gender type; "both" parents.. but here we are again in the semantics field. You view a parent from the biological point of view, whereas I define a parent as (hopefully) legal guardian who protects, loves, listens to, respects, takes care of the child, regardless of their bloodline. Do you see adoptive parents inferior to biological parents?
Again, cannot follow your strain of thought. I'm willing to think "more widely" when the baby (see, not "the foetus", there's a difference not based on biology in several months) is wanted. Then the baby has a future with the parents. You seem to think than life for life's sake is something worthwhile, whereas I do not. A life, to me, is not life if it merely means breathing and eating and shitting. That, in my opinion, is not the purpose of life (see my definition of 'a parent' above).
"Women do not become pregnant without semen."
Luckily, your involvement is not long.. though one could argue the involvement is 2 to 4 minutes too long in average.
"And if you would have read my text you would have understood that it was about foetus diagnosis used to stop planned pregnancies and NOT about abortions."
We’re apparently talkin about a different blogging. The one I meant was about abortions. If I recall correctly, your example was that of a dating couple who -while drunk- have sex, forget the condom and as a result the woman gets pregnant. You said that she should carry the fetus for the nine months and then give it up for adoption. There was some others commenting it, too.. one who agreed with you and one who agreed with me. I pointed out that you seem to completely ignore the fact that nine months is a long time even without being pregnant (of which you would have no personal experience, of course, being a man). After that I have stayed out of your blog since it is clear we stand on opposite sides on pretty much most things.
"Seldom have I met more twisted and fundamentalist arguments than from you."
Right back at you.. apart from the 'seldom' bit. There are plenty of your kind out there, who wish to impose their ideology on others and control others, especially those who think unlike you. And curiously enough, it seems to correlate with religious fundamentalism. Just because abortion is legal doesn't mean you have to have an abortion. Similarly, just because gay marriages are legal doesn't mean you have to marry. Basic human rights are not away from those other groups who do not wish to exercise them.
"Anyhow i will in the future have my say about abortions if you like it or not. Anything else is selfish, but feel yourself free to do what ever."
Ah.. therein lies the problem. To quote Beatrice Hall (aka. S.G. Tallentyre) : “I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.” I question your will to do the same.
2 kommenttia
martin
3.6.2009 01:02
No, it does not matter. Why not? Because we all are human beings with some intelligence and feeling. If you want to kill a foetus with an expected Downs syndrom, go ahead - you are free to do so - with your intelligence and feeling. So long as I live I will defend the right for these foetuses to be born! You should even yourself consider that you are NOT the only existing person on this planet - although it seems that you really think so, sadly enough.
"Thing", well, I was not referring to the foetus, rather I was referring to us all - you see: "human"... You don't see that there exists more than a woman carrying the foetus, do you???
I don't even bother to answer your silly insinuations concerning the ability of thinking amongst foetuses. Instead I laugh. Of course you are entitled to your opinion, it may be as wise or as silly as it may be.
All parents or one parent of any child - if caring - is a good parent. But the question here seems to lie with your opposition to any male involvement, especially in questions of abortion. So don't go to any sidetracks, please.
And please - don't put any opinions in my mouth. Potential life is to be guarded. But I hope it to be a life of loving and respecting.
There is love and respect for others - sadly I don't see it in your text. It is full of personal attacks.
One thing I would like to say: I am as entitled to say what I think as you are. It is something else than imposing an ideology or controlling others. But you make this connection, because you don't l i k e my reasoning. It is attacking something else than my reasoning. This is the fundamentalist continuation in your text.
martin
3.6.2009 01:09
The example in the blogging you are referring to: Yes, I stand behind it totally. One should take the consequences of one's behaviour, don't you think so? What I said, was a proposal what to do. It doesn't mean you don't have other options (which belong to you as A HUMAN BEING).